dynamite with a laser beam

Yes. Especially since I've written a few fics with OMCs and people tend to recieve a character/OMC pairing very differently from a character/OFC (which they will assume is a Sue).

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I think, and I said this over at Vera's, warning is really the wrong word - labels like slash or het, or even listing the exciting kinks contained within, it should be more like a statement of genre, or an ingredients list. "Warning" presupposes a lot of bad stuff; plenty of people might be actively searching for kink X or slash or het. Certainly that's how I'm most likely to be found using the "Warning" header. The only genuine warnings I feel the need to note would be the inclusion of something potentially triggering like rape, or strong violence.

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dvanulya.livejournal.com

No apology needed.

I do understand you point (I think). It *is* rather ridiculous to try to "slap a header together" for a story that has any kind of depth to it (unlike mine, which are pretty much all PWP, so...).

On the other hand, if you want to, you can probably find a summary for most traditionally published fiction somewhere, no matter how complicated. I'm probably dating myself (not that way) here, but, for example, something like a Cliff's Notes version of War and Peace is what I mean. (Or, much more frightening, Ulysses.) So, really, if you didn't want to invest all that time in reading a book you would hate, you could read the summary. There seems to be a similar idea at Shelfari, which I never visit anymore, but I'm always getting "should I read this book" emails from them. Of course, this is what friends used to be for, before we had the Internet.

So, yeah, the header is there to give people an idea of what they can expect to find and what they can expect to spend their time on. I think a lot of people do use them that way. If a writer doesn't abide by the norms of a community, he or she may be overlooked or even condemned.

And here's another question. Is it a good thing to limit oneself to only a specific pairing, or a particular kink, or whatever? Maybe, maybe not. For me, personally, it's probably not a good thing. The headers let me feed my sometimes overwhelming obsession with very little effort, which is great. Except when it's not. Which is like, right now, when I've been on LJ all fucking day, rather than doing research or cleaning my sand-filled house, or something. Nonetheless, like with many other things, I continue to over-indulge.

And now my own OT apology.

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dvanulya.livejournal.com

To answer your last question, yes. If by "interacting in terms of a relationship" you mean "having sex." Which you may not. I can be alarmingly obtuse at times.

But if the interaction is in any way in the context of a relationship, then yes. The / can still be present, even if it's not the sole point of the fic. However, I'd say that was entirely at the author's discretion. As is everything, really.

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Well I mean, not having explicit sex, possibly not kissing, possibly only fighting without fighting about the relationship but that they are involved is there because a) it's canon and b) a relationship feeds the dynamic of, say, fighst even if those fights aren't relationship centred. Jack ticking out over Lisa can be fed by the relationship dynamic without that dynamic having ever been made explicit in the story.

ot's the grey area inbetween where Jack and Ianto are involved but for the scenes of a fic that involvement is in the background. Does that automatically make it gen?

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dvanulya.livejournal.com

I don't think that automatically makes it gen, but as you say, grey.

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unfeathered

Warning for slash is just stupid, and rather offensive, tbh. As you say, it should be there in the header info anyway.

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mad-jaks.livejournal.com

I pointed out in Vera's journal that I want to be warned for Het - it was kind of a tongue in cheek comment but not entirely.

Because yes, if I find a header that says Jack/John NC17 I am going to be on that puppy like a shot because HEY! slashy goodness (and if it turns out it's NC17 for violence instead it makes no difference).

BUT I have been known to come across headers in the past that read
Female character, Male character NC17 and gone off to read expecting violence/adult story line and got graphic Het sex instead! Cue rapid exit by yours truly.

*doubles back to fill out poll*

*comes back to edit*
Just to be clear I just want a header to tell me if there's graphic het ahead. Not that it has to be a "Warning". Warning is the place you put things that are likely to squick people - like dubcon, or breathplay or - withn my f-list - shmoop :-)

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Putting in a / rather than a , guarantees more readers. Just from a commercial standpoint (which would need to be evaluated, I'm just putting it out there as a hypothesis not as a statement of fact)

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slaymesoftly.livejournal.com

I've never thought to warn for slash. I figure giving the pairing and rating makes it pretty clear that you may or may not want to read it. The main thing I warn for is for lack of Spuffyness, since that's my main focus and if I'm going to throw a Spander or Spack in there, I figure I'd better let my regular readers know that it's not going to be Spuffy. I find myself reading more and more gen fic now - the story being more important to me than the pairing(s) involved. A good writer can probably make me believe any (reasonable) pairing throughout the course of a good story - and if he/she can't make me believe it, then I probably won't finish reading it anyway. I don't seek out other pairings, but I'll read them if I trust the author.

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See I'm writing a story with a scene with a non-major OFC at the moment. I think if I put it into the header as OFC in I will turn off readers that take it for a Mary Sue fic. If I put OC and sneakily trick them into reading the story ... they might like it?

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Especially in research on leadership you'll find a lot on this, generally though, the most successful leaders are the ones with equal typically masculine and typically feminine traits, but women are then rated as less likeable and men as more likeable. DOn't ask me to quote a study, I'd have to read up on it again.

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Tricksy! I would do that, actually. Sneak her in the backdoor. Pander to fandom's unreasoning prejudice ;)

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Exactly. Except now I said I'd do it. Oh noes, the secret is out-.

And I just had to check, I've written a major male OC before and only used OC, too, so I'm even staying within my own set parametres with that. Now I only need to figure out how to tag a threesome that in its dynamics is certainly threesomy but in its sex acts is not.

Since - I think we tag sex acts with the / not dynamics? ... Actually that might be my issue with the / vs , ... what exactly IS described through these things...

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Weirdly, I was just pondering exactly the same thing. I'm just compiling some recs, and was noticing one author used character, character rather than character/character. In this case I think it's because the sexual act is a non-consensual one, and it feels like over-dignifying it to use a slash.

I don't think we always and only use / for sex acts though. Certainly I've see pre-slash, slashy moments with no sex etc marked with a /, so as long as the dynamic is along those lines, I think you could go with it.

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Ah, okay. *Lightbulb going on now.*

I do usually think of labeling for darker content or kinks or character death as a warning since some people are triggered negatively by these things.

Warnings = a guide, in the vein of: "Hey, if noncon bothers you, you might want to skip this one", just like "if you suffer from heart problems, Viagra might not be for you".

If headings are standardised in a comm or for an awards submission, the term "warnings" will probably stay in general use, but I don't have a problem with using "genre" instead - or something else.

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I'm agreeing that readers should have an idea what they're going to find.

Hypothetical: What if het UST is in a story? Or something romantic or iffy like... *thinks*

Okay, the Doctor is with Jack, but he's flashing back to the last person he was with and it was Rose, and he thinks about how he loves her too and misses her.

"Ew!" or "That's fine. It's not graphic hexsexing!"

Should there be some mention of this character who's not actually present in the story itself, in your view?

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Yeah... actually I do know Spike/Buffy readers who will NOT read anything else (ditto Spike/Angel, etc).

And I've got to catch up on Knowing and Watching - and you have a comprehensive summary for that! (But I tend to read longer series when they're finished.) :)

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With an odd pairing, if I trust the writer - or the reccer, I'll really be stoked about checking it out. (Well, I'll read it anyway out of curiosity.)

Like... the stories on your rec list. :)

I think Torchwood may have drawn slash-oriented writers in the first place, so it makes sense that they sort of dominate the fandom, ala QaF.

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lucy-locket.livejournal.com

Like... the stories on your rec list. :)

Awww! ♥ I do like to think I have good taste ;) I'd love to make some rare-pair rec lists in the future, but I'd have a fair amount of hunting to do in order to find stuff. I'd definitely be interested though, the rare-pairs need more love..especially Ianto/Gwen but I'm biased. Oooh, John/Gwen as well. I've been really loving them lately.

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Yays! YW. And I'd love to see rare pairs rec lists!

I've been thinking about creating a TW threesomes list. I like those. :D

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oneloveonelight.livejournal.com

I don't feel like you SHOULD have to warn for slash, it feels like homophobia, like warning for boykissing on a soap opera or something. However, I have before and I kind of regret it.

The reason why I've warned for it before on my journal, is because I very rarely post anything super duper explicit, slash OR het on my own journal (comms are a different matter). So I will let people know what's behind the cut in case it's not their thing. And, like some people stated here, I PREFER slash content so I'm more apt to click if I see it, hee! But I will read ANY pairing whatsoever. I just have a few favorites is all.

You make a good point, I think just the names should be enough and if someone bitches or makes a rude comment, well, they should be booted off of course, because homophobia isn't something anyone should tolerate.

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Well, I think there's a difference here too, in that my journal is mostly a fandom journal. There are only a few "outside of fandom" people on my f-list, so, you know, random sex fic is expected. :D

That, and everything can be tied back to Doctor Who. Or TORCHWOOD!

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mad-jaks.livejournal.com

That's fine. It's not graphic hexsexing!
That one. Definitely.

Het UST? Fine by me - though unless the writer is being *really* obvious I will probably miss it anyway.

Romance? Not the hearts and flowers shmoopy twu wuv kind EVER (though I have been known to beta it - I will beta anything!)

Het sex? I don't seek it out but I can read it - I was going to say below a certain level (I usully cite PG13) but that often doesn't take into account any 'kinks' that might be present.
It's more... a matter of language?? There's... *pokes it* Okay So I wrote that Gwen/John Hart for

karaokegal's last Halloween Party BUT if I hadn't written it I'd never have clicked on a link leading to it UNLESS it had been written by an author I knew and trusted (and even then I would have thought twice about it if it had merely been headed het).

And just to add to the your confusion I was skimming the all the entries in the porn battle at the weekend regardless of pairing and enjoyed more than a couple of the non-slash ones :D

WOW I never knew I was this complicated.

ETA
Should there be some mention of this character who's not actually present in the story itself, in your view?
I missed the last question - if there's going to be porn I'd like to know that's coming up - If it's just thinking about someone that's fine. I am not the sort of person who dedicatedly ships one pairing to the exclusion of all others. Jack/Nine are my OTP this doesn't mean Rose never gets to have sex with her guys even though I don't see Nine/Rose in canon.

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